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Hello, I am attempting to conduct a multilevel CFA with Mplus. Repeated measures data from daily surveys are nested within individuals. So, I`ve got a twolevel model with a series of repeated measures on the withinindividual level and individual differences on the betweenindividual level. Now, I`d like to conduct a CFA with level1 variables that were measured 18 times. I guess the basic syntax for my analysis might be Example 9.6 in the handbook but I have a very simple question concerning this syntax: TITLE: this is an example of a twolevel CFA with continuous factor indicators and covariates DATA: FILE IS ex9.6.dat; VARIABLE: NAMES ARE y1y4 x1 x2 w clus; WITHIN = x1 x2; BETWEEN = w; CLUSTER = clus; ANALYSIS: TYPE = TWOLEVEL; MODEL: %WITHIN% fw BY y1y4; fw ON x1 x2; %BETWEEN% fb BY y1y4; y1y4@0; fb ON w; I am not sure about what variable I should use for "w" in my data. Actually, I am interested in testing variables y1y11 (measured on level1) and like to figure out if a onefacor or a twofactor model will be appropriate. So, I do not understand what variables in our model would parallel "w" in this example. I would be grateful for your help! Thanks in advance. 


It doesn't sound like you have a w or an x in your example. And given that you can treat longitudinal data as singlelevel data, you may also not have a need for twolevel modeling. It is not clear how many items you measure per time point. If only 1 item, then the number of items is the number of time points in your singlelevel factor analyis. If a set of items, then you have a factor model at each time point, like the top part of UG ex 6.14. 


I am asking advice on how I should model a multilevel CFA. I have a model where subjects observe variables under specific conditions hence I have repeated measures (conditions are within subjects). The dataset is structured as follows: Subj VarX Condition 111 ... 11 ... ... 12 ... ... 13 ... ... ... 222 ... 21 ... ... 22 ... ... 23 ... ... ... 333 ... 11 ... 12 ... 13 ... The total number of conditions is 16 and each subject observes only 8 of them (random block). What is the most appropriate example I should follow in the manual? I am avoiding using complex sample (w/ sandwich estimation) techniques because I want to capture the variance given by subjects as well as the variance explained by the different conditions. Thanks in advance. 


With data in the wide format, multivariate modeling takes care of the fact that several variables are measured for each person. The 8 conditions not measured should be represented as missing data. There is no need for multilevel modeling. 


I don't understand exactly what you mean. I you mean to model all the variables in the CFA after having transposed the dataset such as Subj VArXCond11 VarXCon12 . . . . then my model would have an incredible number of variables and won't converge as I will have more parameter estimates than observations. Instead I was thinking about using a two level CFA where I would cluster the subject but I still need another level to look after the condition. Is there any possibility to run a kind of random effects CFA model? 


The parameter reductions you get by using the long format impose measurement invariance, something you cannot then test. You should consider this. You can impose those same restrictions in the wide format. 


It's an impossible model to run (in the wide format) as I would have 16 conditions x 32 variables and I would end up w/ 512 variables having ~220 observations. I think the CFA would have >1,500 parameter estimates. What kind oif restriction were you suggesting? Loadings, error variances and factor variance to be equal across the items/variables and to be freely estimates across the conditions (being orthogonal?) 


It sounds like you have 32 variables per condition and 8 conditions per person. If so, do the 32 variables measure a single factor for all conditions? If so, can it be assumed that the factor indicators (the 32 vbles) have measurement invariance (at least loadings, perhaps also intercepts) across all 16 conditions? 


Hello Mplus Team: I am running the following multilevel mediational model: observed within and between level covariates > Multilevel CFA (leading to their respective parts) > 2 individual measured outcome variables (with random intercepts; fixed slopes). I have grand mean centered the within level covariates and I have manifest group averages of the same covariates at between level. As I understand, by default, multilevel CFA are essentially constructed by having group mean centered within level indicators and the between level indicators are a latent mean average that contain both within and between group variance.  please correct me if I am wrong here. By having the within level covariates grandmean centered, am I getting contextual effects at the between level without putting any constraints on the Multilevel CFA indicators? If I do need to put constraints on the MLCFA, what would be the best why to go about doing this? Ideally, I would like to get only within level variation on the within level and between level variation on the between level. Thank you for any help. 


Multilevel FA formulates a model for the population SigmaW and SigmaB, corresponding to within and between variation decomposition. In terms of the analysis, the factor indicators are not centered or averaged. The decomposition is in line with 1way random effects anova: y_{ij} = eta_j + epsilon_{ij} where eta_j has between variance and epsilon within variance. In line with Raudenbush & Bryk (2002), page 140, you get contextual effects on the between level when you grandmean as opposed to groupmean center the covariate. 

Sandra N. posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011  8:16 am



Hi, I conducted a multilevel cfa with 6 latent factors, each specified by 4 indicators on the within and between level (12 latent latent variables and 24 manifest variables in total). I used data from 620 students nested in 45 classes. This model converged fine and model fits were satisfying (RMSEA 0.035, CFI/TLI 0.928, 0.917, SRMR within 0.039, SRMR between 0.125). However, I obtained the following error: THE STANDARD ERRORS OF THE MODEL PARAMETER ESTIMATES MAY NOT BE TRUSTWORTHY FOR SOME PARAMETERS DUE TO A NONPOSITIVE DEFINITE FIRSTORDER DERIVATIVE PRODUCT MATRIX. THIS MAY BE DUE TO THE STARTING VALUES BUT MAY ALSO BE AN INDICATION OF MODEL NONIDENTIFICATION. THE CONDITION NUMBER IS 0.125D15. PROBLEM INVOLVING PARAMETER 46. THE NONIDENTIFICATION IS MOST LIKELY DUE TO HAVING MORE PARAMETERS THAN THE NUMBER OF CLUSTERS. REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PARAMETERS. I tried to reduce the number of parameters but it seems I cannot reduce them lower than 45, so I am not sure how to deal with that error. Is the model trustable (loadings, s.e.)? Furthermore, I obtained 3 negative residual variances (0.007  0.028)on the between level. As those values are small I fixed them to zero. Could you give me some advice on how to deal with those Heywood cases in reporting the results as I am currently working on a publication of these analyses. Is the model trustable despite the Heywood cases? Thank you for your help. Sandra 


It is common to have small residual variances on the between level and common to fix these to zero. See the following paper which is available on the website: Muthén, B. & Asparouhov, T. (2011). Beyond multilevel regression modeling: Multilevel analysis in a general latent variable framework. In J. Hox & J.K. Roberts (eds), Handbook of Advanced Multilevel Analysis, pp. 1540. New York: Taylor and Francis. Regarding the other problem, it is not known what the effect of having more parameters than clusters has on model results. This has not been studied. You would need to do a simulation to see this. 

sarah posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2012  12:20 pm



Hi I am doing something similar to this topic's first message posted by Antje. I have 20 indiv measured every month for 30 years (30x12=360 obs). I have 3 items and want to do a CFA. I don't think I can for my data due to many obsv and need to do multilevel. I looked at ex. 6.14 and also 9.15 and 9.16, but it's unclear. My data is set up in a long format with each line containing one individual for each time period (with 3items, time, cluster ID). In 9.16 WITHIN = time a3; BETWEEN = x1 x2; What would be my MODEL syntax for within and between? 


There will be a new method is Version 7 that can handle your situation. 

sarah posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2012  12:20 pm



Hi I need to do what I wrote in the previous post ASAP for my dissertation. When is Version 7 coming out? Is it going to be in September or October? Is it going to allow me to conduct multi level analysis and still test for measurement invariance across time? This will definitely solve my problem. 


While waiting, you may want to study the handouts from the Version 7 course last week in Utrecht posted at http://www.statmodel.com/v7workshops.shtml 


Late summer or early fall. 

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